U.S., Iraqi Forces Find Some Success In Tal Araf; Gitmo Detainees Subjected To Humiliating Interrogation Techniques; Fire In Philadelphia Kills 5 Children

Aired June 12, 2005 - 16:00 ET


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR, CNN LIVE SUNDAY: Success in the hunt for insurgents in Iraq. Exclusive new details on the major military operations around Tal Afar.
Also, inside the barbed wire, Gitmo, new information is revealed about techniques the U.S. military used to interrogate prisoners.

Later, picking up the pieces after a tornado rips a five mile path of destruction. Hello and welcome to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Those stories and more after a look at the headlines.

Tragedy in Philadelphia. Five children are dead after a fast moving fire sweeps through a two-story row house. The fire broke out this morning. Two adults who managed to get out are in critical condition. Authorities are looking into whether bars on some of the windows may have prevented the children from escaping.

A moderate earthquake rattles buildings, but no reports of damage in southern California. The 5.6 magnitude earthquake jolted the area near Palm Springs this morning. Just ahead, I'll talk with a seismologist about whether the quake is an indication of something larger to come.

A month after lawmakers granted women the right to vote and the right to hold office, it's a history-making day in Kuwait. The nation has appointed its first woman cabinet minister. Massouma al-Mubarek, a university teacher will serve as planning minister and minister of state for administrative development affairs.

Fallujah, Tikrit, Mosul, all Iraqi cities that have become known for the violence that has claimed countless Iraqi and coalition lives. But now a new city is emerging in the mission to root out insurgents. Tal Afar, that's where for days now U.S. and Iraqi forces have been working together in a show of force. CNN's Jane Arraf is embedded with U.S. troops and has an exclusive look.


JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A major operation here in Tal Afar is over, but the effort and the sights to find, capture or kill insurgents from the city which has essentially been held hostage is continuing. This is a city where people are afraid to go to the hospitals, where mothers have been afraid to send their children to school. U.S. forces say that they are rounding up, along with their Iraqi army counterparts, insurgents throughout the town, working with tribal leaders to reestablish the police force.

And southwest of this area in western al Anbar province, that fight as well continues. We spoke to the Marine commander in charge of that area, Colonel Stephen Davis, who tells us that an air strike has killed what he says are at least 40 insurgents was a matter of getting lucky and finding a safe house where they believed they were fighting.

COL. STEPHEN DAVIS, U.S. MARINE CORPS: We have a fairly elusive enemy and we spend a lot of our time trying to find out where he is. Our efforts were successful. Yesterday we were able to find a gathering of them and were able to bring the combined arms effects available in the joint inventory out here to pretty good effect.

ARRAF: This is a huge stretch of territory, fully one-third of Iraq with very few U.S. forces, very few Iraqi forces and the Syrian border where officials say insurgents and foreign fighters are still coming through. A lot of efforts are focused on that border but it continues to be porous and continues to have insurgents coming throughout the area to towns like this. This Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from near Tal Afar, Iraq.


WHITFIELD: Elsewhere in Iraq, the U.S. death toll continues to grow. Four U.S. troops were killed in the last 24 hours in two separate bomb attacks. Both took place Saturday less than 50 miles west of Baghdad and both happened during combat operations. A French journalist held hostage for five months in Iraq is now back home. Florence Aubenas landed in Paris about three hours ago after being released earlier this weekend. French President Jacques Chirac right there was among those greeting Aubenas at the airport. The woman's Iraqi interpreter was also freed.

And a three-year-old memo to British Prime Minister Tony Blair about Iraq is grabbing headlines today. The "Washington Post" reports it concluded the U.S. military was not preparing for a, quote, protracted and costly post war occupation. The memo was reportedly written ahead of Mr. Blair's meeting with his national security team back in July of 2002 about eight months before the war in Iraq began.

Now to another subject of international controversy. The prison for suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. A new report offers an inside glimpse at the techniques interrogators use to get detainees to talk. "Time" magazine reports that according to a secret interrogation log out of Gitmo it obtained, one detainee, a man who allegedly was to take part in the September 11 attacks, endured a host of interrogation techniques, some authorized by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Here's an excerpt.

After showing signs of dehydration, quote, the log notes, he is given three and half bags of IV fluid. He starts to moan and asked again to be allowed to relieve himself. Yes, but first he must answer questions. When Mohammad (ph) al-Qahtani again requests his promised bathroom break, he is told to go in his pants. Humiliatingly, he does, end quote. You can read the full article in this week's issue of "Time." The magazine's Washington correspondent Viveca Novak joins us now. And what we just revealed are those considered to be techniques, Viveca in accordance with the Geneva conventions?

VIVECA NOVAK, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, the military has always claimed and President Bush has claimed that the detainees at Guantanamo are not subject to the Geneva Conventions. The Geneva convention does not apply to captives in the war on terror. So they will not, when we asked the Pentagon directly this week whether this is in accordance with the Geneva convention in their belief, they simply don't answer the question because they don't believe it applies.

WHITFIELD: Tell me about the log itself. How do you know if it is authentic?

NOVAK: The Pentagon did authenticate it for us. Several people at the Pentagon including the public affairs officers who are on the record and it covers 50 days from late November of '02 until early January of '03, which is a fascinating time because this is the period during which Donald Rumsfeld agreed to the request of Guantanamo commanders to use harsher techniques in questioning this suspected 20th hijacker.

WHITFIELD: He agreed to 16 of 19 strong or coercive acts, right?

NOVAK: Right.

WHITFIELD: And some of those techniques are like what? Describe what they are.

NOVAK: Well, he was isolated out at Camp X-ray, the earliest place that the detainees were kept there, which was a collection of it was almost wire mesh cages, sort of, before the newer Camp Delta was finished. So all the other detainees were over at Camp Delta. He alone was kept at X-ray. He was interrogated for 20 hours a day. He was subjected to blasting music and weird light and all kinds of different interrogation techniques. It's almost like they're just trying to figure out what works best and they keep changing whether it's making him scared or humiliating him or being nice to him. They mix all these things in together and the log is meticulous about noting every time he goes to the bathroom, when he drinks a bottle of water, when he eats a meal, when a doctor examines him.

WHITFIELD: It reveals in the article that it's like a watchman's diary it. It reveals all his little intricacies, but there are huge gaps and you have to question what took place at that time. What is the Pentagon's response as to why are these gaps? What happened to that detainee in the hours or minutes that were not documented?

NOVAK: They have not filled that in for us. We can only imagine he wasn't eating milk -- eating cookies, drinking milk during that time. But there are very large gaps, many hours go by when there are no notations. WHITFIELD: All right. Viveca Novak of "Time" magazine. We can look at rest of the article in your issue this week. Thanks so much for your time.

NOVAK: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: The controversy over Guantanamo Bay is becoming increasingly political. Some U.S. lawmakers want the prison closed altogether. But Vice President Dick Cheney today said there are no plans in the works to do that right now. CNN congressional correspondent Joe Johns joins us from the White House with details. And might this reported interrogation log, Joe, give some lawmakers more ammunition in their fight to close Gitmo?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's certainly creating a lot more talk in Washington, D.C. Fredricka. Democrats of course suggesting, some Democrats that closing of the facility is inevitable. Some Republicans not going quite that far, clearly, though, still asking questions. Senator Mel Martinez of Florida saying over the weekend that he's questioning whether the costs of Gitmo are now outweighing the benefits. Also Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska weighing in on CNN earlier today.


SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R) NEBRASKA: We've got a lot of people running around the world who want to do great damage to this country and other nations. We do need some kind of a facility to hold these people. But this can't be indefinite. This can't be a situation where we just hold them forever and ever and ever until they just die of old age. What are our plans here?


JOHNS: But not everybody is raising questions. The chairman of the House Armed Services committee today arguing that closing Gitmo would send the message that the U.S. thinks it's done something wrong, when in his view, prisoners at Gitmo are, in fact, treated pretty well.


REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R) CALIFORNIA: We are going to serve him a meal. If you look at the menu, and I showed the menu to the American people, we're going to serve him rice pilaf. We're going to serve him oven fried chicken. We're going to serve him three types of fruit and pita bread and he's going to top that all off with a glass of tea. We give him a free Koran, prayer beads, oil, a prayer mat. We give him five times a day a call to prayer where we use our loud speakers to call him and the rest of the inmates to do their prayer under their religion. In fact, we do things for them that we couldn't do for our own soldiers.


JOHNS: Human rights groups of course do argue this Gitmo has been mistreating at least some prisoners. Amnesty International, of course calling Gitmo the gulag of our time. Fredricka, back to you.

WHITFIELD: Joe, these lawmakers who are calling for Gitmo to close, are they also suggesting what would happen to these detainees, if that were to happen?

JOHNS: That's the problem. A lot of people say it's not practical to suggest right now to close Gitmo, because there's no place to put people. The question is where do you send them until the United States figures out what it wants to do with them. So there's a real clash in the practicality at this point, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Interesting. Joe Johns at the White House. Thanks so much.

The case of a missing American teen in Aruba. From a disputed reported confession to a court appearance for three suspects. It's been a busy weekend on the Caribbean island. We'll have the latest in a live report.

Plus, protecting your pension, what can everyday workers do when their employer can no longer balance the books.

And up next, from Florida to Wisconsin it's been a messy weekend. A check of the weather next.


WHITFIELD: A moderate earthquake caused some alarm today in southern California. A 5.6 magnitude quake struck 20 miles south of Palm Springs and was felt as far west as downtown Los Angeles. David Wald, a seismologist with the U.S. Geological Survey, is on the phone from Golden, Colorado, to explain where along the fault lines this occurred. David?


WHITFIELD: All right. So where along the fault lines did this occur?

WALD: This occurred on the San Jacinto fault line which is splay of fault, known better by most which is the San Andreas fault. This occurred at 8:41 local time California. Like you said, it was felt throughout southern California, as well as parts of Arizona, Mexico and Nevada.

WHITFIELD: So 5.6 magnitude sounds large. Was this considered sizable or why is it also being dubbed moderate?

WALD: We get just a few of these in California every year. So this is not uncommon. But it was widely felt since Los Angeles, San Diego, and Palm Springs, very big cities, large populations, but this fault zone itself had about a dozen or so magnitude 6 or larger earthquakes in the past century, so those are all large enough to cause damage. This was not. It was just at border line between causing damage and having no damage at all.

WHITFIELD: So can quakes of this magnitude tell you anything about what may be to come?

WALD: We know this fault system is active and it has been in the past. So this isn't going to tell us much new about that. When you do have an earthquake of moderate size, there is always concern that it's going to be followed by something larger. That is typically about a 5 percent chance or one in 20 chance that something larger will happen in the next week or so.

WHITFIELD: All right. From Golden, Colorado, David Wald of the U.S. Geological Survey, thanks so much for joining us.

WALD: No problem.

WHITFIELD: Sighs rather of relief along the Gulf coast today. Arlene fizzled once ashore. The first named storm of the 2005 season was still powerful enough to knock out electricity to thousands yesterday. Much of it has been restored. Arlene didn't cause anything close to the damage that hurricane Ivan did in that same area last year. Rain from Arlene is soaking areas from the Mississippi valley to eastern Indiana and western Ohio today.

Weather caused much more destruction in western Wisconsin yesterday. About two dozen homes were damaged when a tornado touched down near the town of Hammond. Seventeen townhouses and condominiums were badly damaged but no injuries were reported. At least 24 families had to spend the night in hotels. Damage from the twister is estimated at $3.6 million.

Arlene has faded but a massive wet weather remains. Meteorologist Jacqui Jeras is keeping track of the situation in our national outlook. Jacqui.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hey Fredricka. A lot of active weather again for today. Not quite as bad as what we saw yesterday, however. Our primary concern is severe thunderstorms with the threat of tornadoes across parts of the nation's mid section. Red boxes you can see means tornado watches are in effect and we've been getting a couple of warnings. The worst of the weather right now is into northern parts of Oklahoma extending into eastern Kansas and we do have a tornado warning in effect at this time for Osage County. That's this cell that you can see right there. It's moving up to the north about 30 miles per hour, so should be crossing over into Kansas. This is a radar indicated tornado, the tornado warning, nonetheless for Osage County. That's in Oklahoma.

Also tonight want to talk about the severe weather threat and how long it's going to be lasting. This is just getting started right now. The watches are posted through at least, 10:00, 11:00 across much of the plains states. Our biggest risk of large scale -- large tornadoes that could be long lasting, the F-2 to F-5 kind of tornadoes that cause a lot of destruction will be in the panhandles of Texas and Oklahoma, also extending over towards Oklahoma City.

Slight risk of severe thunderstorms also associated with what's left of Arlene. You can see the circulation there right across western parts of Kentucky. Some very heavy rain right now around Evansville, (INAUDIBLE) towards Terra Haute, even Indianapolis getting in on the action. Expect to see one to three inches of rainfall widespread across the Ohio valley, continuing to move up to the north right now, Arlene, but eventually it's going to take more of a northeasterly turn, make its way into the Appalachian states almost for tomorrow heading on up into the northeast and bringing some widespread heavy rainfall there. But continuing to peter out, in fact the system across the nation's midsection is going to help to move what's left of Arlene offshore, make her disappear. I think that will make a lot of people happy. Fred, back to you.

WHITFIELD: I think so, I can hear the squeals of laughter. Thanks a lot Jacqui.

Millions of Americans are relying on pensions to fund their retirements. But what happens to your golden years if your company's plan is on shaky financial ground? What you can do to protect yourself coming up next.

And are you looking for some new investment opportunities? Why not try Africa? We'll show you how entrepreneurs are cashing in on the often overlooked continent.


WHITFIELD: Retirement is a time that nearly everyone looks forward to, right? Thoughts of being able to play golf everyday or relax with some other favorite past time? Those things are usually high on the wish list for many future retirees. Congress is looking at pension issues after a sobering new report on pension funding problems. The report projects rather a massive shortage of money to pay worker pensions if the company you work for declares bankruptcy.

There are some 34 million American workers with a pension plan. That's roughly one out of five workers. As recently as five years ago, 221 pension funds were labeled as under funded. That means at least $50 million short of being able to pay promised benefits to retirees. By last year, that number skyrocketed to more than 1100 under funded pension plan. When a company goes bankrupt, money in the pension plan usually pays only a fraction of promised benefits. Joining me to talk about pension funding problems and what you can do if you have a pension is Walter Updegrave, senior editor with "Money" magazine. Good to see you, Walter.


WHITFIELD: All right. Well, break it down in layman's terms. What does it really mean to be under funded, your pension plan?

UPDEGRAVE: Pension funds have liabilities. They have to make payments both to retirees, the people who are retired now and also to the workers who will get benefits when they retire. So what this really means is that if you look at the pension plan right now, they don't have sufficient assets in that plan to make those payments.

WHITFIELD: So is this unusual or is this becoming too common? UPDEGRAVE: Well, pension plans, a number of them as you pointed out before have been under funded in years past. It seems to be coming a little bit worse though. But I think that it is important that we put this into perspective. For one thing, the mere fact that your pension plan is under funded doesn't necessarily mean that your pension benefits are in peril. For example, if the company is still a going concern, your company is still making money, but the plan is under funded, then you're probably OK, because the company has a lot of time to put more money into the plan and for the plan assets to grow and make those pension payments down the road.

WHITFIELD: So are there certain companies that run the greater risk of having pensions that are under funded?

UPDEGRAVE: Yes. The real problem is when a company is financially struggling and the pension plan is under funded. And there, for example, you see things like airlines, some of the auto makers. Also it tends to be in heavily unionized and also very industrial industries. And the problem there is if the company goes bankrupt, then it doesn't have the money to make any additional payments and if the assets in the plan aren't there, that's when you run into or possibly run into trouble.

WHITFIELD: So if your company is struggling, what kind of options do you have?

UPDEGRAVE: There's one thing people should be aware that there is a safety net, the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp steps in if a company defaults on its pension. And they will make payments up to a certain limit. Now that payment depends on your age and also some other factors and right now for someone 65 years old, the largest payment the PBGC generally makes is about $45,600 a year. Now that goes down a lot if you're younger. If you're 50 for example, the maximum payment is more like $16,000. But most people tend to be covered by these PBGC limits. It's usually very highly paid people or people who retire with very generous early retirement packages who may be in danger.

WHITFIELD: And worse case scenario, if your company does go bankrupt, do you have options quickly?

UPDEGRAVE: Well, I think the thing you have to do is prepare ahead, try to save money in a 401(k) plan where you control the assets.

WHITFIELD: All right. Walter Updegrave, senior editor and columnist for "Money" magazine. Thanks so much.

UPDEGRAVE: My pleasure.

WHITFIELD: The Bush administration has called it part of the axis of evil and accused it of funding terrorist groups. But is Iran now becoming a target of terrorist tactics? After the break we'll tell you what happened there today that left several people dead.

The search for Natalee Holloway, find out why three men held in the case will remain behind bars at least for now.

Plus iron Mike, the missionary? Why a former heavyweight champion says he's finally hanging up the gloves for good.

WHITFIELD: Bottom of the hour, here's what's happening now. In Philadelphia, fire officials say attempts to rescue five children from a burning house were hampered by security bars on the windows. Firefighters managed to get children out, but all died soon after. The parents of some of the children escaped and are in critical condition. The cause of the fire is under investigation.

Gas prices are falling. The latest Lundberg survey shows the cost of the average gallon of self-serve regular gas is now $2.13. That's a 1.5-cent drop over the last three weeks. Experts say a large supply of gas right now is driving prices down.

No longer the taste for boxing? Boxer Mike Tyson says he is hanging up his gloves for good and may become a missionary. The former heavyweight champ announced his retirement last night after being beaten by Kevin McBride, a little known boxer from Ireland. Tyson quit the fight after the sixth round saying he no longer has the stomach for the sport.

Now to Aruba and new developments in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Tests are back on a substance resembling blood that was found in one of the detainee's cars. Let's go now to CNN's Karl Penhaul live in Palm Beach, Aruba. And was it blood, Karl?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Fredricka law enforcement sources close to this investigation have told us that that sample was sent to a FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia. It was suspected at first that that sample could have been blood. It was found in the car of one of the three suspects detained on Thursday. We don't know what part of the car it was found in. What we suspect is that a portion of the car where, a sample was found was sent not the whole car. What that source has told us is that no this was not blood, the test came back negative.

They haven't told us what it was but that was not blood in the car. And mean while on Saturday, the judge did remand the three suspects detained on Thursday in custody for a further eight days. We don't know because the hearings aren't public. What the strength of evidence against them is at this stage. This is what their lawyers have to say.

DAVID KOCK, SATESH BROTHERS ATTORNEY: My client states, keeps on saying, he's not guilty, and he has -- he's not one I've been reading in the press that has confessed. Up to now that I know of nobody has.

ANTONIO CARLO, SUSPECTS ATTORNEY: He's a 17-year-old boy. His position -- or his detention is, of course, having an effect on him emotionally. But he is holding strong.

PENHAUL: But one fact remains Fredricka, and that is that two weeks after her disappearance, there's still no sign of Natalee Holloway or her remains. Fredricka. WHITFIELD: And Karl, there have been conflicting reports about the active search of Natalee Holloway. Is an active search on or not?

PENHAUL: There is an active search but the search and the investigation is shifting gears, it is constantly shifting gears, that's been the pattern all along. If you can imagine what the search- and-rescue teams are telling us, is that they have searched most of the public areas so far, what they have to do now is pinpoint other specific areas based on interrogations, based on other tips that they may be receiving. So rather than the broad search that has gone on before, we're now moving to pinpoint operation, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Karl Penhaul thanks so much from Palm Beach, Aruba.

Well looking at other news around the world now. Flash flooding in northeastern China has claimed more than 91 lives, more than two dozen others were injured. Most of the victims are children killed when raging waters slammed into a primary school on Friday. More than a dozen students are still missing.

Terror in Iran today. Three bombs exploded in the southern city of Ahvaz. At least eight people were killed, scores more wounded. A fourth bomb was found; one person was injured while authorities destroyed it. Later two bombs exploded in Tehran killing a ninth person and wounding four others there.

A bomb is blamed for a train derailment in Russia today. The train was headed from Chechen to Moscow when the devise exploded, sending six cars off the tracks. Fifteen people were injured. Officials say it could have been worse. The blast happened at a point where the train slows down on the tracks before heading around a bend.

A CNN security watch. A federal request to pull a scientific paper about the safety of the nation's milk supply is raising concerns. The research paper provides specific details on how terrorists might attack the milk supply. The government says it's, quote, a road map for terrorists. Whatever the case it's raising the question how vulnerable is the milk supply chain? CNN Homeland Security correspondent Jeanne Meserve investigates.


JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Long before the sun is up, Jeff and Judy England are milking their 120 cows. The England's pay a lot of attention to the quality of their milk, but Jeff admits, security is not a priority.

J. ENGLAND, DAIRY FARMER: We're probably not as secure as we think we are, like everybody in the world, if someone wants to get to us, they could.

MESERVE: He says a terrorist could for instance put a toxin like botulism in the farm's milk tank, which is unsealed in an unlocked room.

Essentially someone could walk in here and climb up here, open the top and put something in?

J. ENGLAND: Yes that could be done. Yes. I wouldn't want to be them if they were caught doing it, but it could be done.

MESERVE: But milk goes through many steps between here and your table. A tank truck picks it up to take it for processing. Some experts say terrorists could access the milk supply at this stage, too. But owner Jim Tesler doubts it. Tesler says seals on the tank would show any tampering. Tank trucks take the milk to a processing plant where it is put in huge silos mixing with milk from other farms. If one farm or one truck had been intentionally contaminated, it would spread right here.

After 9/11, the plant's owners decided to lock doors, secure air vents and check employee's backgrounds but is the milk absolutely safe.

JODY VONA, DAIRY MAID DAIRY: It's always vulnerable, if somebody wants to do something, they could get away with it, but I don't think anymore than a strawberry patch or a potato field.

MESERVE: Tampering could also take place after the milk is processed before it reaches consumers like school children. The milk is tested for bacteria and pesticide residues at several points, but never for bio-terror agents.

ROBERT BRACKETT, FDA: To be able find a test for every single thing that could be added to a food would be not as good as actually building into the system the ability to prevent the contamination in the first place.

MERSERVE: But the Food and Drug Administration security guidelines for the dairy industry are voluntary, not mandatory, and the agency has only three full-time employees devoted to food security. The FDA is working on new tests to detect toxins and new processes to eliminate them and says the milk your children drinks is safe, but admits security is never absolute.

For CNN's America Bureau Jeanne Meserve, Mount Airy, Maryland.


WHITFIELD: CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. Stay tuned to CNN for the latest information day and night.

Africa offers the highest return on direct foreign investment in the world, but it might be the last place you think about investing your money. Now a new documentary wants to change that. I'll speak with its maker coming up next.

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, METEOROLOGIST: I'm meteorologist Bonnie Schneider in the CNN Weather Center with your allergy forecast for today. Well pollen sufferers it is not going to be very comfortable in Denver today, we have a lot of pollen in the air there, so it looks like it's not the best day to be out and about. However, down in Texas not too bad, in fact very moderate to little pollen activity going on. So you should be a little more comfortable there despite the hot temperatures.

And speaking of hot and humid up into the northeast, especially northern New England, the air quality is not going to be so great so it may be a good day to stay indoors if you can. That is a look at your allergy forecast. Have a great weekend.


WHITFIELD: Eighteen of the world's poorest countries are celebrating a new era one without the massive debt that has crippled them for so long. That debt, all $40 billion of it will be erased under a deal by the group of eight industrialized nations. CNN's Carol Lin takes a look at how this agreement has the potential to transform millions of lives.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Tanzania, Gahn, Ethiopia, they owed so much money to rich western countries they cut health and education budget and charged taxes for basic services just to repay world debt. In Ethiopia where people survive on a dollar a day, a woman has to pay a month's wage to give birth safely in a hospital. People in Sub-Saharan Africa are so poor they have to choose between food or sending their kids to school. Because parents were taxed for basic education. That money would barely cover the interest payment on Ethiopia's crushing world debt. Jeffrey Sacks is a special adviser to the U.N.'s millennium project which is fighting to end world hunger and poverty in the next ten years.

JEFFREY SACHS, MILLENNIUM PROJECT: So it's been a brutal trade- off. Do you pay the dept? Well that is what the rich and powerful countries have been demanding up until today. Or do you save your children and insure that they are at school.

LIN: During the 1970's and 80's the U.S., France and other rich western counties lent billions of dollars to corrupt governments who opposed communism. Regimes have changed. Africa is more Democratic, less corrupt but still is seen as a breeding ground for war in terror. And for the average taxpayer, Africa still was a world away until recently when Hollywood brought the issue closer to home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still haven't found what I'm looking for --

LIN: U2's bono one of the most famous voices and faces in the world has personally taken on the issue of world poverty. He raised eyebrows and awareness when he toured Africa with Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill. Super star Brad Pitt and conservative evangelical Pat Robertson find common ground when it comes to Africa, they both believe poverty can be eliminated in the next ten years. That is the United Nations goal.

Carol Lin, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WHITFIELD: While poverty is a real problem in much of Africa, there are many Africans who are prosperous, it's a side of Africa we don't often see, but it is shown in a new documentary "Africa Open for Business." And here is a short clip.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) we have 35,000 people, two years of operation, we are about 850,000 subscribers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is true (INAUDIBLE) the first thing people think is it doesn't present in Africa. The last time I present the festival in France. Journalists said no, it's not Africa. We have to show them all the names of the people on the field are Senegalese.


WHITFIELD: Well Carol Pineau is the documentary producer, director and writer. She is also a reporter for CNN's "Inside Africa" as she joins us from Washington. Good to see you, Carol.


WHITFIELD: All right, well you set up to do documentary on African businesses, because you felt like most of the world is pretty ignorant about it. So what are you hoping through this documentary people learn?

PINEAU: Well I think that there are two things. First of all there is change of perceptions in the general population and the other is encouraging investment. If you look at the facts that Africa offers the highest return on direct investment in the world and yet it receives the least, that doesn't make sense. Money goes where money makes money. But I think that in Africa there is something different happening that because of the images of Africa as a disaster zone and nothing else to counter that image, that investors see Africa as a place that would be impossible to invest in. So the idea is for people to see there is a different Africa, that there is an Africa that you could invest in or an Africa just simply that you could see as a place that you could respect.

WHITFIELD: And at the same time, Africa is not a monolith; you're talking about different cultures, different languages, different customs, businesses, et cetera. So how did you try to narrow the focus?

PINEAU: Well, I picked ten different countries and ten different businesses, and I really wanted to have a vast range both in size of companies and the types of companies and in types of countries. So I picked Botswana, which is known for fantastic governance, has the highest sovereign credit rating in all of Africa. In fact one that is equal to Japan and I also picked Somalia that doesn't even have a government.

So it really was to show that we think the entrepreneurial spirit has passed Africa by. In fact that's not true at all. Even in the worst of places people want to build a better life for their children, and that's what they're doing. And sometimes with governments that allow them to do it with more ease and sometime not. But they're doing it anyhow.

WHITFIELD: So outside of Somalia, a place without a government. How about in countries where the government is notoriously corrupt? What are the kinds of struggles that that businessperson is dealing with?

PINEAU: Almost all of the entrepreneurs talked about problems that they had from corruption to changing regulations, just a number of days that it takes to set up a business. On average according to the IFC doing business in Africa report, it takes 63 days to set up a business in Africa. It takes two in Canada. Where are you going to invest your money? There are things that governments can definitely do that could change the investment climate in Africa. But again even with the most difficult of climates, people are going ahead they're moving forward.

WHITFIELD: You mentioned like in Canada, in the U.S., you've got small businesses that get a lot of government support, are there any countries in Africa from your research that you are finding were getting real support in terms of dollars or perhaps even some counseling on how the setup a small business?

PINEAU: I think that all of the governments have tried even since I was in Africa filming last summer. Several of them have set up what they call one-stop shops. Which is one place where you go to get your licenses, to pay your taxes everything, that's reduced the number of steps, reduced the number of days. They have done a lot of things in that way to be more investment friendly. but there are a lot of times where you sense that governments don't really understand what businesses need and that's another thing that we're hoping with the film, that this will help to create a dialogue for the private sector and for governments to talk.

WHITFIELD: All right if folks want to see "Africa, Open for Business," they can check out your Website to see bits of it and the rest of Africa gets to see it on June 29th?

PINEAU: Yes, that is right and the Website is

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks so much, Carol Pineau.

PINEAU: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: The battle over breast-feeding in public? The comments by a popular TV host that stirred up a storm of protests. Jeanne Moos with the lactivists protests after this.


WHITFIELD: Well, breast-feeding in public is perfectly legal, some new moms say they're treated like criminals when they nurse in the open, and that has some of them so incensed they're taking to the streets in protest where they hope to change the views on the matter. Here's CNN's Jeanne Moos.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): There's a name for activists who are lactating, lactivist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you don't want to see it, don't look. It is not that difficult.

MOOS: Some women who breast-feed in public are breast-fed up with the ABC show "The View." One of the show's regulars is a new mom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The blanket falls. It's off, milk spraying.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Milk is spraying?

MOOS: Jokes on "The View" and comment by Barbara Walters prompted a nurse in, a protest by 200 nursing women in front of ABC. They were mad at Walters for what she said about sitting near a breastfeeding mom on an airplane.

BARBARA WALTERS: It made us uncomfortable. I hate to admit it.

MOOS: Walters later amended her remarks to say it was the man sitting next to her who was uncomfortable. Not Walters herself.

At a mall in Houston.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got milk, got milk.

MOOS: At a fast food joint in Pittsburgh, at a discount store in Florida, there have been incidents involving women breastfeeding in public.

SHANNON GORDON, NURSING MOM: She said, again, "I think it will be best if you leave and you leave now."

MOOS: Most often, breastfeeding women say disapproval isn't actually voiced.

ANGIE ESTRADA-BENDRAT, NURSING MOM: They give us looks. Especially men.

MOOS: Like what?


MOOS: When an employee at a Maryland Starbucks told a nursing mother to cover the baby or go to the bathroom, protestors asked could you drink your latte in the bathroom. The Starbucks apologized. The mother involved started her own Website, complete with a parody logo. Breastfeeding in public does make some folks queasy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I would walk out and go to another Starbucks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, as long as it's covered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to relate it to urinating in public. If people are going to do it, they should do it discretely.

MOOS: On New York's upper west side, nursing moms gather at The Upper Breast Side the cities first breast feeding boutique, featuring items like this hands-free pumping contraption. There are outfits that let you breastfeed with total discretion.

This is the first interview I've ever done with a nursing mother.

Elsewhere, you could buy coverlets with names like Hooter hiders and udder covers. Breastfeeding moms say they don't have a choice. Babies need to eat every couple hours, and breast milk is the healthiest choice.

It doesn't make you uncomfortable to see a woman --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. It makes me horny.

MOOS: For babies themselves, this is a big yawn. As for "The View" --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have said here publicly I would nurse a monkey. That's how weird I am.

MOOS: The baby's favorite view is the one from the tap. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.


WHITFIELD: Still much more ahead on CNN LIVE SUNDAY. Coming up in the next hour, an emotional story of loss. A woman whose father and brother were killed under Saddam Hussein and her life now in the United States.

At 6:00 Eastern, the fountain of youth, knowing your body and your metabolism to help you live healthier and live longer. More of CNN LIVE SUNDAY right after this.



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© Carol Pineau, 2006